Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome! Arrowheadology.com is the #1 arrowhead and Indian artifact community on the web. Join us now!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Relic Hunter
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    missouri
    Posts
    126

    adena or dickson

    i have and seen points some say thay are adena and some say dickson can you tell me the dif.

  2. # ADS


     

  3. #2
    Graduate Arrowheadologist
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hocking Hills, OH
    Posts
    859
    I think Dickson is just a variant of the adena. It has a more squared base than the rounded " classic " adena.
    When I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone.

  4. #3
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    6,413
    Yeah, it's like saying "dog or poodle". A poodle is a kind of dog. A dickson is a kind of adena.
    ... I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man to depend simply upon himself.
    Lone Man (Isna-la-wica) Teton Sioux

  5. #4
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    2,483
    I have to disagree guys. Dickson and Adena are from separate cultures. Dickson is middle woodland while Adena is early woodland. Dickson has a truncated contracting stem and Adena has a rounded stem as Gibby stated.

  6. #5
    Flintfinder of Mo.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    MO.
    Posts
    259
    Guys, I took a frame of same site finds. Adenas, dickson's, a waubeasa's to the collinsville show.. I had Motley look at the frame... He told me these three are adena's, these four are dickson's, and those 3 are waubesa's...(wich I all ready Knew)

    When I told him they all came off the same site, in Mo., he gave me a funny look.... I think the books are wrong based on my hunting.. I have also been told that we never had Dicksons in Mo. We had Adena culture..... Here you go, do you think they are all the same point.. Most were found washing out, with the big waubesa in the gravel bar below the washout...
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Flintstone; 04-22-2011 at 08:19 AM.
    FLINT

  7. #6
    Graduate Arrowheadologist
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    681
    John is correct on this one. The hopewell culture made both Dickson and Waubesa types and Overstreet incorrectly typed them as "Adena Waubesa" and "Adena Dickson"

    Most of the stem points you find in the western part of the midwest have no relation to the Adena culture. It's unfortunate that collectors have called them Adenas for years. However, we really dont see much, if any, true Adena material in Illinois, Missouri, Or Iowa.

    If you take a look at the link and what kind of describes Adena activity and mortuary pracitces you'll see that sites like that dont really exist in the western midwest.

    Adena culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, in John's frame you can see all the different style points that are found on a Hopewell site. However, the Red Ochre culture also made some stemmed points along with some other late archaic stemmed types like Kramer.

    Hippy

  8. #7
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    6,413
    According to the Noel Justice Midcontinental/Eastern reference they all fall under Dickson Cluster. Here are a couple lines regarding the time.

    "the Peisker site in Illinois (Perinos 1966n) produced Dickson COntracting STemmed points dating from 500-300 BC."... "Adena mounds suggest and age ranging from 800-300 BC".

    Maybe it's a misnomer to say Dickson's are part of the Adena group.

    However, that seems to be a common thought and a search of "Adena Dickson" on google quickly brings up 1,360 results and appears all over the place.

    Adena Dickson

    Once again, I will defer to my thoughts about people and our need for labels being more trouble than help so much of the time.
    ... I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man to depend simply upon himself.
    Lone Man (Isna-la-wica) Teton Sioux

  9. #8
    Sanity is Overrated
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    835
    I really have nothing to contribute to this other than to reinforce what Hippy said. Adena tend to taper off and don't occur much west of the Mississippi River Valley, but you'll still find plenty that look like them.

    Dickson / Waubesa are Hopewell, but it's probable that they derived from the earlier Adena culture to the east. Waubesa is a variant of the Dickson and they are found on the same sites together. Dickson have other forms than Waubesa and the "Broadblade"...they just haven't been broken down and named yet.

    DrDave - I believe Noel Justice has Belknap confused with Dickson. He gets a bit far-out-there with his lumping sometimes. Piesker, Adena, Dickson/Waubesa have three different cultural affiliations.

    "Adena Dickson" is one big screw up. Thank god Overstreet has finally corrected their mistake in the later edition.
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 04-22-2011 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #9
    Graduate Arrowheadologist
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    925
    But they all are made by the natives

  11. #10
    Tribal Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    2,483
    I think this is a facsination thread. Stemmed points have always been a confusing to me also. There is a wide variety. I agree with Hippy that there is lots of early woodland here but I have never seen or heard of an Adena mound. Here is a point Perino identified as a Belknap several years ago. Also a few pottery shards that eroded out of the same bank. This stuff is half an inch thick.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by rmartin; 04-22-2011 at 05:30 PM.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •