Hornstone confusion

[CDEAN]

There's something I've been wondering about for a while now. I read on a site online that hornstone only outcrops in Southern Indiana and the Louisville area of Kentucky. I've seen hornstone points from hilly, rather isolated Eastern KY counties. Would that really have been transported from all the way across the state, or does it outcrop there as well? And is there really a difference between Indiana and Kentucky hornstone?

[drdave514]

yes, no and yes.

It's quite amazing how far they travelled and traded for good rock.

[CDEAN]

Originally Posted by drdave514

yes, no and yes.

It's quite amazing how far they travelled and traded for good rock.

Why does it only outcrop in that relatively small area? If it forms in limestone, which is all over the state, what stopped it from forming in other areas of KY?

[joshuaream]

Short answer, Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Long answer:

There are several big quarries/caves in Southern Indiana where natives mined Hornstone, and it was traded/used within a couple hundred mile radius. So yes, you can find a piece of Wyandotte cave Hornstone in your area, or you could find Harrison County Hornstone, or maybe even J-town Hornstone. Some groups used only one big quarry, some used all the big ones, and some only used little ones. You can see some differences (color, banding, shine) between hornstone quarries that are 20 miles apart, and you'll find old pieces that don't match any known quarry.

I believe the limestone is St. Genevieve formation, which goes from Missouri all the way towards Ohio. Where this particular limestone is close to the surface or has a cave structure, you can find nodular grey/blue/brown nodular cherts. These are Hornstone, Cobden, Dongola, Sonora, St. Genevieve, and probably 20 local names.

Hornstone, like Flintridge, Ft. Payne, Coshocton, Burlington, and other big Southeast and Midwest chert/flints are found in huge underlying geological formations that can stretch across many states (usually limestone.) These limestone beds have layers, nodules, veins of silica rich material. We know about the big quarries, but there were undoubtedly countless small quarries that were used and then filled in by early farmers. Collectors and archaeologists sometimes use the same name, sometimes use very different names, but geologically it's easy to talk about the "bedrock" formation and go from there. All of the grey/blue/brown nodular cherts in Kentucky, Southern Indiana, Southern Illinois and parts of Missouri are St. Genevieve formation. Some of it is colored differently, some of it is very fine and glassy, some is chalky, but it's all basically the same age and was laid down during the same geological period. If you go to a big modern stone quarry in Kentucky, you can find hornstone, carter cave, and St. Louis Green in different layers of limestone because they have millions of years of difference in age. Some like Carter Cave only came from a small area because that age of limestone is only exposed in a couple of areas, but geologically there are millions of tons of the stuff buried deep underground across a huge area of land.

If you creek walk enough in Kentucky or southern Indiana and the creek cuts through limestone, you'll find nodular chert. If you are close to the Sonora area it will look like Sonora, if you are inbetween Sonora and Dongola, it'll look like both.

[joshuaream]

Originally Posted by CDEAN

Why does it only outcrop in that relatively small area? If it forms in limestone, which is all over the state, what stopped it from forming in other areas of KY?

Sometimes I ramble too much. It took me a couple of paragraphs to say what you just asked.

You are spot on. The big quarries produced the vast majority of the stone we see, but minor quarries and exposed limestone in caves/creeks produced geologically similar material across a huge area of land.

[CDEAN]

As always, you're very informative Joshua. Thanks for the info.

If you creek walk enough in Kentucky or southern Indiana and the creek cuts through limestone, you'll find nodular chert. If you are close to the Sonora area it will look like Sonora, if you are inbetween Sonora and Dongola, it'll look like both.

There's a stretch of creek here in Fayette county that runs into the KY river. Every time I go there, I find countless pieces of this rock that's banded like hornstone/sonora. There's one piece I found there that I think is a very small flake tool. It's mostly normal rock, but one end of it is very dark glossy flint that's shaped like a chisel. I think it might be sonora.

[CDEAN]

Oh wow, I googled dongola chert. I've found several pieces that look like this. I've only found one piece that has actual quality flint on it, but the banding/darker part of it is EXACTLY what I've found. This is in Fayette county BTW.

[ghost recon]

Great info in here. Alot of my questions about some of the particulars and subtleties of hornstone were answered here, thanks

[drdave514]

Good post Josh. Regarding there being a difference in Indiana and Kentucky hornstone, generally speaking, KY hornstone is darker than IN hornstone so I consider it to have differences. There are numerous hornstone deposits in KY and IN with some dark outcropings in IN but, again, generally speaking, there is a color difference between the two.

[drdave514]

Here are a couple modern made examples. The middle left and top right are IN hornstone. The bottom center one is KY hornstone. Oh, and the top left is Onandaga from Canada with the middle right being Dongola from Indiana. Amazing how similar they can be from varying areas.

Also, CDEAN, pick up as many large(6+inch) pieces as you can find. There are people, like me, who will buy them.