The Artifact Company?

[Flintstone]

It is just amazing, If you get a bad steak at the steak house, you dont get sued for putting it on your facebook, If you buy a lemon of a truck, You can tell anyone you want about it.. Here in my home town we have a section in the news papper called"LETTERS to The Editor" people can write in and complain about what ever they want. People write in and complain about, The hospital, our police Department..etc...etc..Pros board has a beware section.... I dont understand either..JMO

[Aboman]

Originally Posted by fishingandfirearms

Wow, that just seems crazy to me. This is all new to me.

Did the company just threaten to sue or did they actually win a lawsuit?

Can anyone answer why other industry forums have sections for product reviews and are not sued for it?

I don't want to come accross as arguing this point, or not believing that you can be sued. I would just like to be set straight on what is ok and what is not ok to ask on this forum.

I am not part of a local artifact club so the majority of the info I get is from this site, and I sure don't want to be sued, or cause anyone else to get sued for that matter.

In general, online you can relate your experiences but not make proclamations from that. Such as "Joe Schmoe papered this point that my friend made" but not "Joe Schmoe is a crooked sleazy con artist". The first statement you can prove (if your friend made the point) and the authenticator just says he gave his opinion anyhow. But if Joe wants to sue you on the second statement you put in print, he will more than likely win either the case or a settlement. This is fact. Joe Schmoe doesn't want his reputation tarnished or his income hurt so he retains some cheap and sleazy lawyer, and it costs you a fortune to defend your libelous statements in print.
So, whenever any relic company is brought up, you'll maybe hear a few good stories, but the bad stories aren't usually told in public. Experienced buyers have their favorites that they trust, as they should. But even the favorites make mistakes, sometimes BIG mistakes. There once was an online "bad sellers list" that got threatened out of existence, but there sure were a lot of names on it.

[drdave514]

What Aboman said.

Slander that you can't back up is where the line is drawn. If it can be proven that a person is negatively affected in monetary terms for something that isn't "the truth".... you're asking for trouble.

You can say "I think White Castle hamburgers taste like crap" but you can't say "They put horse crap in White Castle hamburgers".

[Hippy]

You can feel free to post facts about previous experiences with auction houses or dealers. However, once you start to post repeated negative or deragatory opinions about any of the businesses it becomes libelous or defamatory. I believe Aboman gave some examples and I'll add a few more.

It's acceptable to say that "X" dealer has had a lawsuit filed by collector "Y" against them for selling fake artifacts. Collector "Y" has agreed to settle out of court for an undisclosed sum. You can also post any legal documents pertaining to the case because it's a matter of public record.

Or, you can say collector "A" purchased a point from an auction house and the auction house didn't accept his request to return the point.

Those are all facts and will shed light on the kinds of companies your dealing with. What you can't do is show a history of repeated attempts to defame a party because "in your opinion" they are really bad people. You better have some facts to back up your opinion and stick to the facts otherwise you'll open yourself up to a court case.

I have actually gone down this road previously. I have been contacted by one of the dealer/authenticators about messages I posted on a forum. There were no lawsuites involved or anything authenticators and dealers are watching what's being said.

So long as you present facts you have nothing to worry about.

Hippy

[fishingandfirearms]

So basically if you have a negative experience and want to post it online then you better have the documentation and the cash to backup your claim.

How about creating a list of reputable dealers, instead of list of bad dealers? I could just assume if the dealer/auction house doesn't make the list then not to deal with them.



Is there already a list like this out there?

[dcameron]

Crooked dealers/authenticators have been hiding behind the threat of litigation for a few years now.

As long as your statement is in good faith and you are not intentionally making false statements you will likely be okay. The odds of any of the dozen or so authenticators/criminals winning a defamation suit are slim to say the least.

[joshuaream]

It's easy to talk about people not shipping relics, not refunding your money, sending broken things, sending the wrong piece, etc. Those are relatively strait forward facts that can be shown with reciepts, pictures, etc.

The grey area is if you say "So and so sells fakes relics, beware." The authenticator could stick to his guns and say the relics are authentic and that you were spreading lies about them to hurt their business, reputation and livelyhood. Even if you are right, the legal fees alone might be more than you want spend to defend yourself...

The idea of a "good seller list" is a good idea. The AACA has a member directory that is, in theory, a list of sellers that have agreed to certain standards. The issue is that the bad dealers are quite often the best at customer service and they make it clear that they "bought it as old, but don't know for sure". They know that if they appologize, refund your money, refund shipping both ways, etc. they eliminate most of the hard, factual claims you can make against them. That's why some of the biggest crooks on eBay have great feedback ratings.

Or some dealers are a mix of bad and good, and the general collecting population knows and accepts it. If you buy collections for resale like most dealers do, you are going to end up with some fakes sooner than later (usually because the seller wants to sell everything, not just the ones you want to buy.) Many of them have a junk box where they toss the fakes, some "hammer-time" them, but others try to recoup their investment anyway they can...

[Gibby]

I have been to estate auctions where a guy gets put in charge of selling the estate. Jim Hahn has always been good about telling people, " I am charge of selling this collection and ALL the pieces in it. I do not know about this particular piece but it doesn't look good. " That is coming from a guy who makes money from the pieces he sells. That is a good character IMO.

You just have to trust the people you are getting them from. Educate yourself is the main thing though.