Mitochondrial haplogroup C4c:

[Mojave]

A rare lineage entering America through the ice-free corridor?

In:
American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 147, Issue 1, pages 35–39, January 2012

Free copy can be found at:
Mitochondrial haplogroup C4c: A rare lineage entering America through the ice-free corridor? - Kashani - 2011 - American Journal of Physical Anthropology - Wiley Online Library




fwiw

[rokdok]

this study makes so many assumptions, and draws conclusions from so many suppositions as to be almost useless. It does, however, inform the non-priveledged public (us) that there are now 15 known so called "founding haplotypes" instead of just five.

Supposition #1-- that current geographic locations of native Americans with these haplotypes has anything to do with the geographic location of paleoindians 18,000 years ago.

#2---An "ice-free corridor" actually ever existed, or that Clovis, much less pre-Clovis entered through this fictional passage, as no Clovis (or older) artifacts have been found along this mythical corridor.

#3---That just because X2a and C4c have similar coalescence times that they arrived into the Americas at the same time from the same place. Purportedly, (as alluded to in this paper) the Windover specimens from the EAST coast of Florida yielded FIVE individuals who were consistent the X2a haplotype, AND THESE SPECIMENS CAME FROM WELL DOCUMENTED REMAINS 7-8000 YEARS OLD. So, there was a population in Florida six or seven thousand years prior to the remains tested from the central part of the country, with the X2a haplotype and yet it is assumed that the haplotype originated at the mouth of a mythical ice-free corridor? Give me a break.

And, let's not forget their amazing conclusion, that just becausr the coalescence schemes for C4c and X2a are SIMILAR, that this absolutely precludes a North-eastern (or South-eastern, for that matter) origin of the X2a haplotype. Drivel.

Just my 2 cents.

[ApacheNDN]

rok, I agree with you completely. It seems a certain group of scientists are hell bent on proving only one theory on where ndn's come from. Perhaps a reread of Ockham's Razor would do them some good. And keep an open mind to the big picture before creating their theory's. No one is denying that the DNA from Asia is there. But what about the European's DNA. Has there been exhaustive research done on their DNA to see if it exsists as well in modern ndn's as well? So what's wrong with the idea that people came from both directions around the same time. Or one earler than the other. And they meet, and eventually there is a mixing. And voila! Modern ndn's! 15,0000 years is a longtime for people to occupy an island and not become one thing. Isn't that the current theory? That eventually everyone will be brown? After all, if this didn't happen, I wouldn't be here now. My father was Chiricahua Apache and my mother Anglo. And were not even trapped on this continent! JMO

[blackwater]

I'm really trying to keep an open mind because to date there is no absolute proof of west to east or east to west first, but in reading Stanford's newest book i'm leaning east to west with the way he and his co-author have assembled the evidence of bi-facial toolmaking technologies and the growing number of early dates in the east. would really be neat to make a living trying to solve this.

[uniface]

This is maybe too simple for it to seem plausible, but it works for me.

1) The dozen or so Paleo-Earlier Archaic era skulls known show that the earliest known inhabitants of North America were of a different physiological type than the people the Anglo & Spanish explorers encountered.

2) The archaeological record shows that, as the Archaic era progressed, much of North America increasingly degenerated into Hell with the Lid Off due to group warfare, taking enemy heads & forearms as trophies, cannibalism &c. Socially, there wouldn't have been much about Kentucky to prefer living there to living in New Guinea then.

3) Even the remains of Adena people in Ohio are easily distinguishable from those of the Hopewell people who (probably) supplanted them.

4) The bottom line is that, for maybe 9,000 years, North America was one giant game of "Survivor" on a continental scale, played with weapons by disparate groups competing for territory & resources, winner takes all.

5) The hypothetical Solutrian (and generally unmentioned, the later Danish Red Paint People) presence here does seem plausibly reflected in the genetic picture of contemporary "native" peoples -- mostly Asiatic genes with, in a few places, the residual contributions of the prettier enemy captives.

But the Leap of Faith involved in assuming the Paleo people were essentially identical to the contemporary survivors is pretty wide.

[ApacheNDN]

I agree with most of that. I think there were pockets of religious fanatics that caused problems, Adenas, Hopewells, Mayans, etc. Fighting everywhere? In thousands of burials uncovered at Moundville, only one death was attributed to violence of some kind. Same for ndn's encountered in California by spanish missionaries. There were said to be multiple tribes living together in large villages. Ndn's that didn't even speak the same language as their neighbors living side by side in relative peace. Can't we all just get along? lol..