"Bird" point challenge.

[tomclark]

On a similar subject, all the local names for points are nice, but I often generalize to nomenclature (NomenCluton?) such as Archaic Stemmed for about a thousand different local names for such, a broader name. Or I use the basic time periods, Early/Late Paleo, Early/Late Archaic, and Woodland. I am not a typologist.

Two types of Woodland True Arrowheads from FL
A Pinellas Point (from Pinellas Co., FL) chert, could be patinated coral, the most common Woodland point in FL and probably the entire SE US, called various local names, all triangles.


and a Weedon Island Point, Hillsborough Co, FL "Greasy Agate"

[Cluton]

Aboman makes good point!! The tiny birds we find are with are archaic and paleo sites! All mixed up! If a later culture camped at ancient sites, flakes would be everywhere!! I've often thought the same scenario, woodland clan picking up flakes and knapping a bird point out, fast! And a multitude of them!!!! It would be easy for them, no big reduction steps, just knapping off old flakes!! Just a theory!!! I've got a few birdies made off a smooth flake, almost uniface on one side!! And a few both sides are smooth with just finish work on edges and around base!! My last point is my old friend knaps heads and I watched him one day, he started with a 3 big Blakes, broke like 3 attempts, cussed and grabbed the broke part and made 3 bird points!! I was driving home thinking, ahhh now I see how a birdie can come to be or an older point picked up and reworked even if it was broke!! Good learning experience for me! Last thing is on true bird point camps, we have one we hunt, not much flake at all! Flake and debitage is just not there, one nice cobble, you can make several birds points, compared to archaic sites with crap laying everywhere!!!

[Palmwood]

Maybe this site should be 'Projectilepointology' or 'Utilizedstonetoolology'. It's hard to find a general name for all of it. I used to get bothered by "birdpoint" and even more with a local collector that calls them "birdshot", like #7 lead shot. Now I have given up and call them birdpoints myself. It's just easier to go with it and not have to give a archeology lesson every time. So I agree with the thread, and believe they were used for big game as well as small game. Most of the Friley/Catahoula swept wing types in LA are found close to water, and I can picture them being used for ducks and geese. A point like a Friley would have less chance of taking the arrow all the way through the duck, and it would be easier to catch a half dead one with an arrow hanging out of it.

I don't necessarily agree that their bows were inferior. The Caddo were likely in the bow business and build nice Osage and Hickory bows for trade. If you could fully draw one back it could easily be a 70# pull. It all depends on the maker. There are some good writings that compare prehistoric bows from around the world to modern bows. The biggest difference is the reflex, instinctive snap shooting used with a long bow as opposed to the draw, hold, aim used with a modern compound. Anything that can be killed with a modern bow could be killed with a 'primative' bow.

[Cluton]

I didn't know the draw weight was so high! That's awesome, even more power for the little points!! Learn stuff everyday!!

[drdave514]

I'm of the opinion that almost anything over 1.5 inches was likely a knife/blad/tool and only the pieces under 1 inch are likely to be projectiles. Some may be spear points I suppose. In the class of projectile points you're probably going to have atlatl, arrow and even some spear tips but deciding which is which will likely come down to typology/time period.

One thing I have found to be consistant is that when a piece has serrations which are evenly spaced and approximately the same height and design you are either talking about a knife that hasn't been used yet(a rare find) or a projectile point. There isn't going to be resharpening on a projectile. You shoot it until you lose it or break it. The rest of the pieces you start to see beveling, uneven serrations and varying height as the piece get's resharpened and used, like a knife.

Point being, if it's a piece that's borderline in size I ask myself about the serrations. If they are even then you determine if the type is an unsharpened version with the excruvate sides you might see. Leaning toward it being a knife. If not, then I'd say it's a projectile.

There are exceptions to every rule but that common sense information, which I was told(it's not like I invented the wheel), have served me well.

[wiseshanks]

I used to feel the same way about the knife vs. projectile idea. The example that still has me scratching my head is when they found the Calf Creek broke off in a bison skull in the Arkansas river recently. Archaeology just knew that they were a blade type. I know that's a much older type but I can't imagine trying to haft a CC and throw from an atlatl. They would almost have to be right on top of their game. I think they waited till a large herd was crossing the river, which would slow and bog them down crossing water and sand, and ambush them. As far as arrow points go, weren't natives more reliant on agriculture than before so they didn't need to hunt bigger game? They could by easier with deer

[Aboman]

Originally Posted by drdave514

I'm of the opinion that almost anything over 1.5 inches was likely a knife/blad/tool and only the pieces under 1 inch are likely to be projectiles. Some may be spear points I suppose. In the class of projectile points you're probably going to have atlatl, arrow and even some spear tips but deciding which is which will likely come down to typology/time period.

One thing I have found to be consistant is that when a piece has serrations which are evenly spaced and approximately the same height and design you are either talking about a knife that hasn't been used yet(a rare find) or a projectile point. There isn't going to be resharpening on a projectile. You shoot it until you lose it or break it. The rest of the pieces you start to see beveling, uneven serrations and varying height as the piece get's resharpened and used, like a knife.

Point being, if it's a piece that's borderline in size I ask myself about the serrations. If they are even then you determine if the type is an unsharpened version with the excruvate sides you might see. Leaning toward it being a knife. If not, then I'd say it's a projectile.

There are exceptions to every rule but that common sense information, which I was told(it's not like I invented the wheel), have served me well.

Dave-
I think if you'll look at the width of the haft, not the length of the point, then you can tell if the point was hafted to an small arrow shaft or a larger dart foreshaft. The wider dart points were not just darts, they also were handy knives that got resharpened. There are 3" arrow points and 1" knives, but the key to id is usually the width of the shaft at the haft.

[drdave514]

I agree totally. However, sometimes the various types of bases, especially with side notch vs. stemmed, there is a great variation in the size/use idea.

[Cluton]

Good discussion! Aboman I like your thinking!! I can see how a little 2 in Perd was used as a dart, but my 5 in Perd looks like a knife in my mind!! Something to think about, indeed!!