'Progressive' Cultures

[mbrown1833]

I was thinking about Clovis points, even Dalton, and the tools seem more complex and evolved than the future cultures. I wonder if there have been any theories behind this. The only thing that can come off the top of my head is I wouldn't want to be in lieu of a mammoth, sabertooth, etc. with anything but a well-crafted Clovis (or the likes). What do you think? Any metaphysical or evolutionary thoughts? (I'm into that kind of stuff (

PS- I'm going home this weekend. I hope my neighborly friend, Terry, has not taken all of the goods these storms have turned over. I'd love another Jersey Flute.

[zachMA]

I think big fluted points worked fine until people started settling down and relying on different food sources. A clovis spear might kill a caribou fine, but probably wouldn't do well fishing or hunting birds. Maybe the demand for a wider array of point types along with a greater abundance of lithic material made complex, less dispensable points unnecessary and people were looking for a fast weapon. Quality vs. quantity I guess. But, it could've just been lost with the culture, like the roman lorica segmenata compared to medieval armor.

[Cluton]

As people populated, more people could hunt for their families! Thus, amounts of points for hunting were increased and workmanship declined! They just knocked em out more quickly, so they could get to the huntin spot and bring home more animals! Not to say points after Paleo times are ugly, they were still craftsman, but with the need of more projectiles and knives, they didn't take the time to sit their and produce a stellar Clovis or Folsom! Just an idea and probably an ignorant theory! Either that or they got lazier!! cause the others could compensate for more hunting darts! Hell I don't know!

[kirby]

mbrown,

I have wondered about this for years.

I have always found it curious that the art of knapping seemed to decline as time went on.

In my observations, it would seem that the workmanship of making artifacts was cyclical. The points in my area appear to have a resurgence of prideful craftsmanship around every 3000 years or so. Everything in between has a more crude appearance.

Perhaps this resurgence represents a point in time in which life was a bit easier either due to less conflict or a more plentiful environment. I have also pondered that perhaps catastrophic events might be a factor.

But all this personal conjecture based on nothing more than random thoughts.

I am certainly interested to see what others think. Good post.

[kirby]

I'm inclined to bump this thread, as I would like to hear from more of you on this subject........................

[uniface]

Originally Posted by mbrown1833

Clovis . . . tools seem more complex and evolved than the future cultures.

They surely do. But coming to grips with it will take time to ponder everything involved. It's not a topic suited to an off-the-top-of-your-head response.

Or, at least not mine.

[joshuaream]

The china and cutlery my great grandparents used is much nicer than what I use, were they more advanced? Or was a standard or implied value just different.

Basically what may have been fundamentally important to Clovis/Folsom might have meant squat the Gary makers.

[Flyjunkie]

the Extraterrestrials noticed how well made the Clovis and Folsom points were being made.. it caused them concerned because to get hit by one would be bad, and the Extraterrestrials thought that if these superb Craftsmen kept at it in a couple 100 years they would have really effective weapons.. So the Aliens transported all the Clovis and Folsom folks up into their Mother ship and took them away to their Planet.. leaving behind not quite as good Native American Point makers to populate the Americas...

[Cluton]

Good theory right there!! If your from New Mexico! Oh who am I fooling, first stop on my honeymoon was the UFO Musuem in Roswell! I'm serious!! lol

[mbrown1833]

Kirby, I think you're on the money. There will always be speculation. There are also studies done that when one group has it bad, they tend to work harder, are more prideful, and actually live longer lives. Then their children tend to live reckless, chancy, and therefore shorter lives. There's also progression through evolution; and what is that? If you ask me, humans live cyclical (like you said, Kirby). That cyclication (I made that up) is to me is kind of sad. I feel as if evolution of the homo-sapien is the ability to be mindful and part of their environment. The best way I can think of that is traversing a continent with a hard-head and a well-crafted hard-point.

Josh- I think the idea of fine china is a completely different topic; but respectable and noted.